M-3 California models

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raygun85
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M-3 California models

Postby raygun85 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:12 pm

Hello everyone,
its been awhile since I've been on the forums since my initial post. Things are looking real good for the new clone my dad's trying to build. It'll be sort of a build-to-order production for starters since the economy is the way it is. He already has a couple of orders and I'll be making the pickups. We're having the vibrato cast similar to a Moseley and it'll work just like it in function. Still not sure where we're going with the bridge, I think we're gonna try a tuneomatic style bridge only with height-adjustable Graphtech saddles. Graphtech has been working with us to try to develop a decent bridge. Next year we'll be looking into the Moseley style roller saddles, we'll lose the height-adjustable feature but we'd like to at least offer it as an option.
We got the new website up and you can see a few small pictures on the 'About' page of the bodies and necks. I'll try to post some decent pictures on the forum as soon as I have a chance, maybe later tonight. In the meantime you can check the website

http://guitars.m3california.com/

I think he was talking about selling them for between $1500-$2000 with a hardshell case. Any thoughts or ideas? He's really confident in the bridge but I'm not too sure. It'll probably work fine but I'm more interested in something vintage style.
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Re: M-3 California models

Postby Veenture » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:52 am

Looking good!

The 1 5/8” nut width for the 63 American is sure to get a lot more "Fender players" over the fence for this one!
Good luck and we look forward in seeing the finished product with logo detail and all... :P

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Re: M-3 California models

Postby Strat-o-rama » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:00 am

Sounds like an interesting project, Raygun.
suggestions: 1. use alder for the body. 2. Authentic looking, nitrocellulose 3 tone sunburst, burst neck and headstock like the originals. 3. Vibrato-tailpiece baseplate same size as originals. Offer two versions of neck specs: original, and "Fender size" fretboard, but keep those neck profiles slim and fast. Retain 24.5 scale length.
You guys should build a few, maybe even a half dozen, and offer them online at your website. Lots of pics of each one, serial numbered. Betcha they sell.

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Re: M-3 California models

Postby jtr654 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:07 pm

1 5/8" at the nut and keep the depth at 7/8" or so. You need to make guitars that are more user friendly than the original Mosrites, with there 1 1/2" width and 1/2" depth. The scale is 24 3/4" not 24 1/2".

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Re: M-3 California models

Postby Veenture » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:01 am

jtr654 wrote:The scale is 24 3/4" not 24 1/2".
I believe that Semie was not always consistent here; the scale length depended on the type of tools/machinery he used if I read correctly somewhere on the Forum... :? Guys, gals, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: M-3 California models

Postby raygun85 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:47 am

thanks for all the input guys! very helpful to get some insight. we're very torn between keeping things vintage correct and updating some features (mostly the neck.)
the bodies will be made of alder unless otherwise requested on custom orders, and the scale of the neck will actually end up being right in the middle. Instead of 24.75 or 24.5 we're actually going 24.625. Maybe later we'll do some at 24.5.
I like the point on nitrocellulous...forgot all about that. One of the things that has taken the most time and attention has been the vibrato and the pickups. The pickups are hand-made from scratch. The bobbins are made with maple core and clear plastic on the top and bottom, hand-wound with 43 gauge wire and the opposing Alnico V magnets. Most of the pickups we've wound are between 10k and 12k ohms. The only thing we're doing different is wax potting to reduce microphonics. If people don't want them wax-potted we'll be happy to custom wind a set. In fact we'd be happy to custom-wind a set according to other options like output, reverse wound/reverse polarity...etc...
We're dropping 500k pots and the .05 disc capacitor in. More than anything we want to reproduce the tone as accurately as possible but we do want to make other options customizable like the nut width, and neck profile.
I think for a standard option we're probably going to shoot for a neck profile a bit slimmer than a Fender but a tad thicker than a Mosrite. Sort of a compromise.

What do you guys think of position dots on the fretboard? The vintage-style white markers or something a little more contemporary? My dad is partial to abalone, very small, but not as small as the vintage Mosrites. I'm thinking to go with the white vintage dots. Again, we can make it an option.

Thanks again for all your input. Our overall goal is to introduce a true American-made Mosrite-style guitar back into the market but for a price thats more within reason. We also want to carry on some of the Semie's traditions but build upon them. Semie was quite an innovator and I'm sure he would have adapted to some of the changes in modern guitar manufacturing if he was still alive. Anyway, thanks again everyone!
How dare you presume to inject, using reproducible facts and rational thought, an on-topic discussion into a thread that had degenerated from sarcasm, personal invective, and hand-waving arguments?

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Re: M-3 California models

Postby jfine » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:24 am

The small vintage dots would be my preference, but it might be cool to offer a few options. I'd also prefer bigger frets than the old Mosrite "speed frets". In any case, don't use abalone side dots--they don't show up very well, especially under a gloss finish. Black ones on white binding would be more visible. Speaking of finishes, I'm not so sure that you need to go with nitro--it can get sticky, and the EPA doesn't like it much! A thinly-applied poly finish can sound just as good as nitro, probably hold up better, and be more environmentally friendly.

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Re: M-3 California models

Postby Strat-o-rama » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:13 am

Like jfine, I would go with the small vintage dots. As for frets: perhaps use the thin fretwire, but keep them somewhat tall (higher than a speed fret). This gives the owner the option to file them down if they want true speed frets.
I still hold with Nitro. It ages beautifully, and I've never had sticky problems with my AVRI Fenders or my Historic Gibsons. If you do poly, keep it thin. Some of the Poly finished Gretsches are really well done, and serve as an example of how to do it right. Avoid making "M&M's guitars"; hard thick shell on the outside, soft and chewy on the inside :D
Keep in mind your market: hand made early Mosrite Mark 1 style. Stay as close to vintage appointments as possible. Your customer will be a more sophisticated gearhead/player; someone who has a deep appreciation of this particular niche of guitar history. Looks are very important; stay as true as possible.
Personally, I think you're on to something. Good luck and keep us updated.

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Re: M-3 California models

Postby raygun85 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:11 pm

hey guys, thanks again for the feedback. it has really been helpful. i think for now we'll be doing a build-to-order basis since the economy is still somewhat unpredictable. it might work out well anyway since we'll be able to offer more customizable options. we're still sort of in the design stage for now, but once we get all the details ironed out lead time should be about 3-4 weeks. once we start recieving enough orders to justify full production we'll probably introduce two models, maybe a vintage model and a modern model. The vintage model will keep closer to the 60s while the modern version will have the wider nut, thicker neck, abalone inlay dots...etc...

Again, thanks for all the input guys. It has introduced some new ideas and also confirmed others that we were leaning toward. I'll try to get some better pictures posted tonight. Hopefully we'll some pictures and videos of the finished product in a few weeks.
How dare you presume to inject, using reproducible facts and rational thought, an on-topic discussion into a thread that had degenerated from sarcasm, personal invective, and hand-waving arguments?

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Re: M-3 California models

Postby raygun85 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:04 am

Finally got some pictures posted. I'll some pictures of the neck tonight.

Sizing up the Moseley vibrato...should have pictures of the brand new one by the end of the week.
Image

Comparing a Wilson Bros replacement body with the typical Mosrite-style body...
Image

Assembling pickups...
Image

Another shot of the Mosrite-style body...
Image

Fresh off of the band saw
Image

Pickup cover and a prototype...(This one was scrapped. The cover ended up being too narrow and we didn't like the rounded look so we redesigned it to match a Mosrite pickup more closely. You can see one of the covers in the picture above. It is sitting near one of the bobbins to the left of the photo. You can also compare it to the smaller cover sitting just above it.)
Image
How dare you presume to inject, using reproducible facts and rational thought, an on-topic discussion into a thread that had degenerated from sarcasm, personal invective, and hand-waving arguments?


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